Why are the Democrats so spineless?

submitted by kinther@lemmy.world

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/03/d…

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I mean yeah, but the better use of time is covering the takeover.

In related news, frog with all legs removed becomes deaf.

Not just them, anybody with fucking power. Where is the military right now? Theres a fucken coup happening in plain sight.

I thought this was what the second amendment was for... Well regulated militia and stuff...

Have you done anything like that yet?

Not my country, not my lifestyle. But when all those gun nuts give a militia protecting the democracy for an answer to the question why the second amendment is necessary you have to wonder if they started maching by now. Because if not, that argument might be bull.

It's easier to call for someone else to be brave than it is to be brave.

I'm not calling anyone to be brave. I'm calling them to put their money where their mouth is. Twice now, but you seem to not understand.

I'm not a vegan, nor claim or aim to be one. But if I went about loudly proclaiming that I was, using this to justify my actions, and then it became public knowledge that I am in fact not a vegan, then it would be the same hypocrisy. When a group claims to need weapons to quell a threat to democracy, and then proceeds to ignore the threat when it arises, then they are hypocrites. Hope that helped understand the point - let me know if it did 👍

well, no, not a coup, a constitutional crisis, but not a coup

It's not a coup unless it's from the Potomac Valley region of the US. Otherwise, it's just a sparkling crisis.

The Four Loko of coups

Eh more bud light than four loko

It's a distinction without a difference. It's an unlawful seizure of power.

Idk man I’d say it falls under the definition of coup. With extra steps sure, still a coup tho imo

Unlawful seizure of power is a coup . . . oh . . . wait . . . Trump has complete immunity . . . nevermind

The dems have no coherent message and strategy because they are an attempt to unify basically everything that isn't the far right under one banner. That means that different politicians under it, and different voters that vote for them, want fundamentally different things. Taking a firm, party-wide stance that satisfies the left wing of the party would risk driving off the segment that is just "conservatives that dont feel comfortable with how openly bigoted the republicans are", and vice versa. But trying to please everyone by committing to nothing and running on good vibes eventually results in people getting frustrated with voting for a party that doesn't advance what they want.

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And yet Republicans have successfully runs on being everything the left is not under one banner successfully for two decades now, taking over the entire federal government.

That's because the Republicans aren't afraid to tell their base they'll do it all regardless of it contradicts with something else, even if they know it's controversial, and they push all of it through and let's everyone know they tried to push it through. They show to their members they have their backs regardless of how stupid it is.

Meanwhile on the Democrat side, you don't have a single mainstream leader that's willing to do that and actively squashes anything that might upset the moderates or their donor resulting in no one feeling like the Democrats will actually fight for them because they won't.

This is something else that the Republicans have always had an edge on.

I can't remember exactly how the saying goes. Something about trying to serve two masters and you end up pleasing neither. Republicans have learned that message. Democrats have not.

Even before the days of Trump, Republicans have always given one clear, consistent message and you either have to take it all or leave it all. You want the immigration policies? You take all the bigotry and tax cuts for the rich that goes with it. You want religious freedom? Then you take our anti-abortion policies too. If it's that important to you, then your option is to hold your nose and vote for us. Trump has streamlined the process and put a face to the ideology, but the underlying tactic is the same. One man, one message. Take it or leave it. There is no option B.

Democrats have never learned that. Think of it. Even when Trump isn't in office, who is the face of the Republican party? Trump. He will be the face of the party long after he's dead. And his party's message will be the same as it's been for decades: This is what the party is all about. Take it or leave it.

Who's the face of the Democrat party? What consistent message have the Democrats ever sent? They try to be a broad umbrella for everybody who isn't Republican. They have no party leader. No face of the party. No message. They try to please the independents and centrists and end up pissing off the far left, only to try to please the far left and alienate the centrists. It's the epitome of trying to please two masters and pissing off both. It's the epitome of "jack of all trades, master of none". It has always been this way. They have never, ever learned that trying to please everybody just ends up pissing everybody off. They need to learn one thing from the GOP: Find a message, stick with it, and stop trying to be all things to all people. If the people are on your side about an issue that's that important to them, they'll hold their nose and accept the rest.

They try to please the independents and centrists and end up pissing off the far left, only to try to please the far left and alienate the centrists.

Only because they pretend the far left are about "woke" social policy stuff and absolutely refuse to even consider left economic policy.

I was just asking a friend this last Friday. The party is led by out of touch boomers, backed by moneyed interests, and refuses to change. They'd rather not rock the boat or be the cause of a division in our society. Yet here we are, more divided than ever and growing by the day.

At least it wasn't by their hands?

you don’t see any other actors or forces that have led to division?

There are plenty and too many to list here.

But Democrats, that’s the one?

The thing about wedge issues is that it doesn't matter if someone gave it a whack, the divide was already there.

The fascists aren't fascists because Big Scary Putin brainwashed them with a magic crystal, this is what they want.

They're paid to.

There's a protest planned for today near you. If you'd like to attend below is a bit of info.

Some more media mentions, mostly local and brief:

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BONUS:

I guess the debate is if that’s indicative of how well they represent the voters.

because they're paid to be.

"look, there are good billionaires. We're going to take money from the good billionaires, we won't accept money from the bad ones."

The new DNC "leader"

just saw that clip today.. this guy is exactly what you expect of the dnc- they're signalling they haven't learned a thing. hope democrats are looking forward to jd vance and co.

The exact same reason, regular folks with zero chance to ever be rich in the USA, defend inheritance tax like their lives depends on them... the are ignorant and/or think they are just about to "get there" and don't want to limits to apply to themselves

Lmao because they are just as beholden to corporate money as the right

I think that's mostly true, I see Democrats as the power brokers. Basically they hold power between the people and corporations and attempt to maintain order. This was the mo of Republicans until Trump.

I think that they probably believe they're doing the best they can, but the reality is they serve corporations first, us second.

Money. They want money.

They're not spineless. They just have different values than you.

Neoliberalism.

They're bought-out by capitol, just like the Trump Troop.

Unleash AOC. Put her at the front with backing she deserves from the party.

Because none of these scenarios happened on The West Wing so they have no idea what to do

That was an excellent oped. Ibreally cant find any fault in it. The wet noodles running the party rihht now are a detriment to America. They simply are not up to the fight. They need to get in the mud or cease to be a party.

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Luckily for us it should not matter. Days of free and fair elections are over. If you understand what that means please let people know. The sooner we can separate ourselves from the controlled opposition real opposition can emerge.

We are talking about a 30+ years project here. Governments die, ideas do not.

It's almost like they're all part of the same club, despite calling themselves different political parties.

It's almost like there can be things that exist in this universe which have one side, and then you can flip it over and it has another totally different side, but it's still the same object regardless of which face it's showing.

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Fat right only understands bullying and clearly that's the only thing that works. Supporting Trump and other far right idiots should be an equivalent of wearing a "dunce hat". Shaming actually works.

All these people want is for their external trauma to match their internal one and I say let them have it.

The Democrats are spineless because a bunch of them are still capitalists and don't want to mess with the status quo and disturb the money faucet that funds them. They're just as bought and paid for as Republicans, they just try to hide it behind virtue signaling and empty words.

Whatever. Voters gave all the levers of power to the rebuplicans. Now don’t come asking for democrats to come to the rescue when they have no power at all.

Its not like they did anything when they did have the power.

and the greens. why have the greens not put an end to this.

What does The Gaurdian expect Democrats to do, without the Constitutional power do it?

In the last election The Executive Branch (Presidency), The Legislative Branch (Both houses of Congress) had their control swing Republican, couple that with Trump having already packed The Judicial Branch (The Supreme Court) with a Republican majority, and that's the whole ball game.

Democrats seem spineless, because not enough of The American People cast votes in Novembers election to give them to power to do or stop Republicans doing litteraly anything all.

Elections have consequences. More Arab and Latino Americans cast a vote for Donald Trump in Novembers election than have ever voted for any Republican candidate before in American History. Leftists on the other hand spent the Spring and Summer of an election year, on nightly news, marching on every major American city, and taking over University commons across the country, protesting Jews, in support of Islamofascist terrorists, chanting "From The River To The Sea", and telling anyone that would listen they weren't going to vote for "Genocide Joe", which I imaging not only freaked out Middle America, but All of it, with the kicker that Democratic youth vote was the lowest on record this past election, while Republican youth vote was the highest.

Donald Trump won his second term as President of The United States by 2.3% of the vote, and the Left suppressed the Democratic Youth Vote.

protesting Jews, in support of Islamofascist terrorists, chanting "From The River To The Sea", and telling anyone that would listen they weren't going to vote for "Genocide Joe",

Oh hey look it’s the rare genocide supporter that helped cost the election.

Funny they blame people being against genocide by Nazi state like Israel yet stay silent on the millions of dollars Kamala received by Zionist lobbyists to continue a campaign so disliked by everyone.

Funny they blame people being against genocide by Nazi state like Israel yet stay silent on the millions of dollars Kamala received by Zionist lobbyists to continue a campaign so disliked by everyone.

Funny that the anti-electoralists and protest vote crowd were just fine with enabling the installation of another nazi state but in the US that would provide more support to the ongoing genocide and expand it to other areas like LGBTQ+ people and aiming to start another world war. The least that they could do is take responsibility for their actions but, I don't see that happening.

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The least that they could do is take responsibility for their actions but, I don’t see that happening.

That's never going to happen. They'll just downvote you to feel better about themselves.

Take a look at my post history, including in this very thread. Despite repeatedly asking, I have never had a single one of these morons ever actually answer the question of how allowing Trump to return to power was in any way better. The most they do is either downvote silently because they know they have no answer, or just tell me to go fuck myself.

And I don't expect to ever get an answer either. I'm going to keep asking because I think the downvotes are hilarious. But I don't actually ever expect to get a serious response.

Well here's a serious answer: Allowing Trump to return to power is collateral damage, and really bad collateral damage but it was simply unacceptable to allow Harris to win the election with that mess of a platform. One would hope for a mass movement to resist Trump during or after election seasons, but American leftists are too spineless to do anything other than complain so the end result is... this mess.

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Well here’s a serious answer: Allowing Trump to return to power is collateral damage, and really bad collateral damage but it was simply unacceptable to allow Harris to win the election with that mess of a platform.

Explain how allowing Trump to return to power was better in any way. Pick something, *anything* that was so unacceptable that you couldn't vote for Harris and explain how allowing Trump to return to power was the better option. Pick multiple things if you want.

You don't stop shooting yourself in the foot by pointing the gun at your head instead.

One would hope for a mass movement to resist Trump during or after election seasons

So your plan was to allow him to return to power and just hope to be able to resist later? You didn't think this thing through very well, did you?

but American leftists are too spineless to do anything other than complain so the end result is… this mess.

And exactly what do you expect them to do now that you've stripped them from all power at every level of government? And wouldn't it have been easier to just hold your nose, vote for Harris, and prevent this situation from occurring in the first place?

but American leftists are too spineless to do anything other than complain so the end result is… this mess.

Um, we've been doing far more than complaining... Who do you think is organizing on the ground right now, and have been for years? I mean, not like the Dems helped, or even moved out of the way of that organizing...

I mean, I really did enjoy getting tear gassed by Democratic party cops for daring to protest against police.

how allowing Trump to return to power was in any way better

How was arresting your voters for protesting genocide helping keep Trump out of power?

ongoing genocide

Uh... Why do y'all forget that there's a ceasefire going on right now? There's a ceasefire that Trump was at least part of achieving, so while Israel is still up to their normal levels of Apartheid, the capital Gaza genocide is over, or at least paused.

The genocide is not over just because they paused killing in Gaza and restarted killing in the West Bank.

By that definition Palestine has been under genocide for 50 years. Which, okay fair enough but that has nothing to do with the claim that Trump is worse than Biden for Palestine.

There’s a ceasefire that Trump was at least part of achieving

No. He had nothing to do with it, aside from promising he'd publicly give Bibi free reign if he won, which was better than not publicly giving Bibi free reign while still giving it to him.

So you decide that the best course of action is to allow a man who has explicitly stated he just wants to see the whole place razed to regain power? How did that help Gaza at all?

Well the guy who explicitly stated he just wants to see the whole place razed got the ceasefire Biden "tried" and failed to achieve for 15 months, which I'd say helped Gaza.

Sure, in the same way Reagan "got the hostages released" -- by colluding with another fascist to make each other look good, so they can gain power and execute their agenda (and their enemies) later.

You've been played and you don't even realize it.

Okay I won't deny that this possibility exists—though I don't think it's likely either—but okay, and? Muslims in America wanted one thing: A Gaza ceasefire. Biden didn't give them that, but Trump did. Therefore the idea that Trump was going to or is funding the genocide harder than Biden did is simply false.

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In an "ends justify the means" way, sure. (And I'll concede that an ends-justify-the-means victory is still a victory some are willing to accept). He basically threatened to nuke and pave the place if Hamas didn't give up the hostages. So if you consider that a win, then sure. Trump basically "won" by saying he's going to turn up the genocide, and maybe he'll hold back the genocide for a little while if Hamas gives up the hostages. And that's where we are now. Gaza gets to exist until Trump says they don't.

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He basically threatened to nuke and pave the place if Hamas didn't give up the hostages. So if you consider that a win, then sure.

Hamas was never the ones stopping the deal from happening; that was always Israel, whom Trump told in no uncertain terms to end the war or else. I won't deny the possibility that Hamas was also pushed along by Trump, but remember that Hamas *wanted* to give up the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. That was the whole point of taking hostages back in October 7th, and they accepted the deal when Biden first presented it in May.

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The way I saw the last election was like this:

People were demanding the Dems to stop supporting genocide, but Kamala was not going to make any changes on that front.

However, any other option would wind up allowing Trump to happen, which is just objectively a worse scenario.

It's like we all saw a horrible fire headed our way and we needed to choose which bus to get into. People advocating for the blue bus knew it wasn't the most ideal bus since they were helping throw gasoline on an external fire in another place. But the red bus wanted the fire and was the cause of the fire and clearly wasn't going to stop throwing gasoline on that external fire anyway. People were protesting that the blue bus needed to stop helping put gasoline on that or else they won't help people get on the blue bus. And now we're stuck with the red bus and we're all on fire.

Granted, the protesters weren't necessarily the strict cause of us being stuck with the red bus and us all being on fire, but they sure didn't help. And them acting morally superior is childish considering they didn't help us try to get out of our own fire and the external fire is not any better due to the red bus, so their protest effectively did nothing anyway as everyone else already knew was going to be the case.

And them acting morally superior is childish considering they didn’t help us try to get out of our own fire

How many times do you expect people to put their deeply held morals aside, to help elect amoral people seize power?

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What does The Gaurdian expect Democrats to do, without the Constitutional power do it?

I've been asking this since the election, and the best answer I get is being told to go fuck myself.

The GOP has control of all three branches of government, along with over half of the state governments. Every single state in the country swung to the right in this election, to some degree. They get to spend *at least* the next two years, most likely four, having the power to do exactly nothing but sit back and watch. The *most* they can do are angry tweets and messaging bills that won't even make it to the floor, let alone get a vote. What the fuck does anybody expect the Democrats to be able to do about it? The last available option is the Senate where Democrats can still throw a monkey wrench into the works until the GOP decide to yank the fillibuster. And once that's gone -- and it will be gone -- Democrats will literally have no power other than to sit there and be benchwarmers.

You had your chance in November, but at least some of you decided to stay home because "Genocide Joe", "old man bad", or "teh price of muh eggz" and when you're told that Trump would be worse saying "Yeah but at least its different". Well, this is what you get. Elections have consequences, and you just gave Trump all the power to do anything he wants because fuck you that's why. You don't get to complain now when all Trump is doing is delivering on the promises that he spent his entire campaign explicitly making. You don't get to act all shocked and surprised now.

The time to do something about this was November 5, 2024. And Democrats as a whole decided to take that opportunity and hand power right back to Trump.

I've been asking this since the election, and the best answer I get is being told to go fuck myself.

Well state governments, for one, should be doing a lot more to resist Trump's rampage. I mean that fucker withheld FEMA money from California right? Why is nobody saying anything about that?

Well state governments, for one, should be doing a lot more to resist Trump’s rampage. I mean that fucker withheld FEMA money from California right? Why is nobody saying anything about that?

The GOP have control of over half the state governments and are fully on the Trump train. As for the other states, exactly what do you expect them to do about it?

Admittedly I don't know much about the nitty gritty of states rights in America, but again at least *say* something when the Trump-led federal government interferes in your affairs. The two examples that come to mind are the FEMA money thing and Trump opening wholly unnecessary dams in California.

Trump opening wholly unnecessary dams in California

That's worse than unnecessary. Removing water from those reservoirs is going to exacerbate the drought when we get into the dry season in the autumn.

One thing Democrats could do at the federal level is to withhold consent for Trump's appointments instead of rubber-stamping them.

Democrats seem spineless, because not enough of The American People cast votes in Novembers election to give them to power to do or stop Republicans doing litteraly anything all.

Maybe if the Dems stopped tossing people into prison for protesting genocides, or for protesting police abuse of authority, there might be more people able to vote for a Dem?

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American voters and the left in particular told the democrats to eat shit and fuck off. Suddenly they want to be saved by these same democrats they called fascists?. How does any of this make sense?

The democrats should just take 4 years off and let the American voters reap what they sowed. They’ll be ok they have money and property. It’s the voters who get what they asked for.

Why help or fix anything if the voters are just gonna tell you to fuck off and give the republicans all the credit? It benefits them far more to let the republicans wreck everything