JemmyAn LAPD helicopter claimed to have ID'ed protesters from above and threatened to "come to your house"
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MagisterThis first thing you should do when going protesting, is to leave your phone at home.
UrPartnerInCrimeAnd cover up your face and any visible tattoos or any other identifying features
iAvicennaand cover your face if you are in a shithole country like USA, Turkey, Russia etc
MegaUltraChickenHaving a small faraday bag around is useful too, that's what I do.
I wouldn't trust a foil bag to do anything 100%.
the only 100% way to not be caught is not bring it.
it also provides an alibi. "see, my phone was here all day long."
I'm talking about an actual faraday bag, not a foil bag. That, combined with a powered off device keeps you fairly protected. They aren't going to get into your phone if it's powered off.
it also provides an alibi. "see, my phone was here all day long."
There's going to be a deviation in usage regardless, it's not providing an alibi. A gap of time when you're not using your device that you normally would be is a marker they look for. They key is keeping them locked out (again, power them off).
I mean, a proper Faraday cage will block anything unless the US government has figured out how to break the laws of physics...
Jerkface (any/all)A proper Faraday cage, a truly excellent one, just the most Faraday of all the cages, is easily defeated by physical attacks such as getting your phone cloned when you get mass arrested and summarily released on OR.
Faraday cage does not prevent gyroscopes and accelerometers from working. Then if you remove it from a faraday cage in the future, it will transmit all that movement
Since you're posting this all over the thread, I'll also have to repeat the information that gyro/accelerometers are not capable of doing that. Small measurement errors stack up and throw it completely off.
Without GPS or tower based error correction any location prediction based on conservation of momentum in the phone will be useless before very long if the phone is moving.
Not good enough. Phones can figure out its location using gyroscopes and accelerometer, then if at any point in the future, you remove it from the faraday cage, your entire movement logs are transmitted.
Phones can figure out its location using gyroscopes and accelerometer
This is plainly false.
The error stack-up from the imprecision of a phone's MEMS sensors would make positioning basically impossible after a couple of dozen feet, let alone after hours of walking around.
There are experimental inertial navigation systems that can do what you describe, but they use ultra sensitive magnetometers to detect tiny changes in the behavior of laser suspended ultra cold gas clouds that are only a few hundred atoms large. That is not inside your phone.
You seem to know a lot about this. I'm just generally fascinated by this method of tracking. Would the sensors ever become accurate enough in the future? Or is there a limit to their accuracy due to physics with a small sensor?
It will always be a matter of "for how long?". Location from integrated acceleration is what we call a stiff problem. Meaning that any error is compounded as you continue to integrate (slight over simplification, but good enough for the point). There will never be a sensor that has zero error, so it's just a question of how much integration you can do before the errors make the results unusable.
I don't think their gyroscopes are good enough for that level of inertial navigation. You could just fling it around tossing it up in the air and down again, that would totally mess with its navigation.
The far greater threat is that you just have the phone taken off you. For that reason alone you should use a burner, but I don't think you should be worried that they can track you based on gyroscope history.
Unless your device is already compromised, that information isnt being logged when the device is powered off so it's kind of moot.
when a large, trump supporter corporation, with its main business being habit and environment tracking based personalized advertising, has so deep access to your phone as it literally builfs the operating system for it, maybe it is indeed already compromised.
"powered off"
Unless I'm holding the battery in one hand and the phone in the other I don't trust it being turned off either.
The reason it being turned off matters is because LE has a significantly more difficult time extracting data from that state. And again, a proper faraday bag prevents signal leak.
You guys are welcome to do what you want, I'm just explaining the best way to stay safe if you don't want to leave your phone at home. There are plenty of legitimate reasons someone may want one as a lifeline just in case.
My concern would be that the police would confiscate my phone. Not that they would necessarily be anything on it, but I don't want them to have my nice expensive phone. They can have this crappy cheap one instead.
If you think you need a phone, it should be a burner.
That burner cant ever have connected to a cell tower when its near your house, otherwise its not longer a "burner"
Edit: Also: Beware of the possibility of there being malware that logs gyroscope and accelerometer data. Those info can be used to figure out your location, then transmitted whenever it has a chance.
Gyro/accelerometer data isn't accurate enough to do that. Small errors in the data add up and will quickly drift away from the actual location. You can use it for video game controllers, but not tracking over large distances. Edit: there's a reason the best VR tracking often uses external methods, not controllers alone.
But most phones have GPS and that's where the real problem is.
Gps jammers should be peaceful protest standard issue, along with stinkwater drone, foamweapons and open source open hardware anti air missiles
Just so we're all aware, GPS jammers will invite the interest of the FCC. Now, protests aren't about being well-behaved, but just know that there's an entirely different federal agency being brought in.
Well, the cops are here with helicopters, tanks and militarized surveillance, at this point inviting jurisdiction conflicts while also disrupting enemy wireless communication, that feels like a strategic improvement and imposing another dimension of complexity to failing state organs. From crashing their drones, to spoofing their chain of command to blinding and silencing their recon units, neglecting the electromagnetic spectrum is ceding battlespace to the enemy.
That gives me a good idea. A week before the protest buy burners, use them frequently near republican supporters' house, go to a protest, use your phone all the time in the protest, dump them near the police, let them enjoy the fruits of the regime they supported.
I bring my phone. I likely won't be breaking any laws, and I can afford a lawyer. So yeah arrest me and waste the system's time. Just another data point they have to sort.
And if it gets to the point where none of that matters we were cooked anyway
Lawyers operate in courts. We don’t have due process anymore.
Then as I said we're already cooked. But also that is demonstrably false anyway. Our judiciary is under heavy threat, but still functioning
Barely functionning isn't good enough, it has to be beyond reproach but today it has daily miscarriages.
Just go out wearing a MAGA hat. They only have small brains it'll probably confuse them.
Like how insects are always pretending to be wasps so they don't get eaten, see it's scientific.
vaultdweller013Or even just dress how they'd expect their own to dress, don't even need a dumbass hat. I wear an old tan leather jacket and a Swedish combat cap which apparently translates to friend for them. Also applies to the anarchists though, they see my clothes as friendly.
Police issues a dispersal order, but blocks all routes to safely leave the area.
Congratulations, you will now be charged as having committed a crime and good luck proving in a court that there was no realistic option for you to leave.
Also police seizes your phone. Congratulations now they access your data and either go after people you have had contact with or they claim you to be part of a criminal organization as they pin other charges on people they found a connection with.
Fingolfinz
UnderpantsWeevilShouting from a helicopter "Please disperse because we'll come to your house and murder your families if you don't" sounds like an actionable threat. And helicopters are difficult to fly on a good day. Would be a shame if someone up there had an accident.
anotherandrewI don’t know about you but if I’m on the ground (protesting or not) the last thing I want is a helicopter coming down anywhere near me.
sounds like a good reason to target any helicopters flying overhead with green lasers.
And now the DEA's got a chopper in the air,
I wake up screamin' like I'm back over there,
I learned a thing or two from Charlie, don't you know?
You better stay away from Copperhead Road.
Sterile_TechniqueThink a drone could get up above it and drop something into the propeller?
🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮Drop it on the tail prop so they start spinning and get hella dizza and throw up.
I would be shocked if they aren't equipped with puke bags for such an event and then your plan is foiled.
Federal offense and highly illegal. They take this extremely serious. Whatever target you were before, expect and multiple time increase in tracking doing this. They will make an example of you.
Source. Local police chases and FAA raids/reporting. Do not do this. You'd be better off finding another method.
you know what else is illegal?
- sending 500 Marines to quell a civil protest
- deputizing police as ICE agents
- yanking American citizens out of their homes because they aren't white enough
- sending Americans to a foreign prison system without trial
I don't give a flying fuck what they think is illegal anymore since none of them give a shit about the rule of law anymore.
Well there's open source open hardware anti-air missiles.
Also it sounds innocuous and green laser diodes cost 2$ so if everyone has them they won't be able to single out anyone.
Also when tghe copters are down, how are they going to track you? Drones, but that's the real purpose of the laser CCDs fry much much easier than eyes.
The surveillance state will not stop by beingpolitely ask but by being physically dismantled. The alternative is perpetual subjugation, the end of history, as far as you are concerned you become as useful and helpless as any other farm animal once this power becomes consolidated.
Our democracy is fake because of first past the post, ranked choice is a red herring. Proportionnal representation or your children will live in work farms. Like every fight before, this is an existential crisis for your perpetual subjugation.
They chose to make the sky a weapon, take the sky away from them.
GoldenQuetzalLOL
From the country meant to represent freedom. No more!
Never was
Wait wdym? Not even in the 18th-19th century?
No, even in 1776, there were contemporaries who mocked a bunch of rich slave owners talking about freedom while stealing land from native americans. American freedom had always been the freedom for the ruling class to exploit the underclass.
dandelion (she/her)correct, see for example the reactions to the US's decision to invade and seize territory from Mexico, which was largely seen as a betrayal of liberal values that the country was supposedly founded on. Don't worry, the US isn't the only country to justify their revolution with promises of liberal ideals like freedom and equality only to expose their true priorities later (namely giving local colonial elites more power than those ruling monarchs in Europe). I recommend reading the chapter on Bolivarian revolutions from the history book Born in Blood and Fire: A Concise History of Latin America for more about the disappointments and failures of liberal revolutions to live up to their promises.
To ad to others that already commented:
Brutal colonialism and imperialism, Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, the Philippines to name only a few.
A helicopter said all this?
Frenchfryenjoyer (she/her)
Can you imagine 6 dudes with AR-15s, nothing fancy, responding that that threat? One wonders what might happen.
If gta has taught me anything is that one well placed shot from a measly handgun can take down a chopper
explodicleEven armored helicopters are very vulnerable, flying things cannot afford to be sturdy.
Flying oppressors beware, you live on borrowed time.
Tail section, fuel tank, tangling hazards (steel wire spool, fast unspooling from above)
They made tge sky a weapon, take away the sky from everyone. Same with radios.
Talking a whole lot of shit for someone riding around in a machine that will find literally any excuse to break down. Helicopters are sketchy as fuck, and even if you manage to autorotate perfectly to try and recover from a stall, you're still liable to suffer severe or fatal injuries. It's super easy to crash due to human error or some kind of mechanical failure.
SharkAttakA well kept helicopter is a reliable machine as any other, but it's true that it's probably a civil heli with extra cop stuff, ergo easy to down with some fuckery.
Even a well maintained helicopter is a safety nightmare.
I started my career in aerospace at a company that makes helicopter engines and later I became a search and rescue mountaineer/EMT in a county with more helicopters used for SAR than anywhere else in the US. We beat it into our new members "never pass up the opportunity to turn down a helicopter ride".
The mountain rescue association tracks member fatalities and injuries. Helicopter accidents are, by a large margin, the leading cause of line of duty death in mountain rescue, and we spend only a couple percent of our time in them.
Planes are safer. So is the ground.
Helicopters can't control decent in failure situations. Helos are a safety hazard period. I'm with the never pass up an opportunity to decline a helo ride crew above.
I mean, you do have some control during autorotation descent, but it's at best an extremely hard landing if your pilot is really skilled. They build crumple zones into the seat mounts for them.
It's a pretty cool technique. You adjust your rotor pitch to let you fall faster which let you put/keep angular momentum into your rotor, then at the last minute before slamming into the ground you pull hard on the collective and turn all that angular momentum in your rotor into lift to make it so that you don't slam the ground at full speed. You can manipulate the cyclic control (direction controls) during autorotation, but you're spinning the whole time, so it's very hard to guide an autorotation to a specific landing area.
You're 'spinning the whole time' only if you lose the tail rotor, but in autorotation you're basically gliding, please don't mix stuff up. There are enough misconceptions about helicopters around.
Are you a helicopter pilot? I thought you rotated with power out, just not as fast as you would without the tail rotor. I could be wrong... I only worked on the engines and used them as a passenger. I've only flown sail planes...
Indeed, one of the few mainstream machines where the smallest of human error, mechanical failure, or hell just bad unexpected weather, doesn't just bring you to a stop, but a deadly rapid unplanned disassembly. Screw that.
This simply isn't true. When well piloted and maintained, an helicopter is a safe and sound machine, not a LoonyTunes gag.
RememberTheApollo_Laser pointer
They'd come kill you for that.
Is it plausible this might cause the helicopter to crash somehow? I wouldn't want to risk that.
Edit: can't believe people be downvoting this. Y'all have no idea how catastrophic a helicopter crash could be. But if you're downvoting because you think the answer is obvious and I'm stupid, I respect that.
No no, couldn't have that, would be a shame
Pup Birua helicopter crash in a populated area has a high likelihood of collateral damage
daggermoon
TheObviousSolutionWhat's wrong is that officers of the law are allowed to lie like that, yet still want to be respected.
LEM 1689
What about walkie talkies? Short wave radios? Older tech comms devices?
Green lasers. Everybody should have one.
Check comment above. This is a terrible idea. You'll go from 2 stars to 5.
One wonders just how viable the Ukranian strategy would be to take out LAPD choppers (when landed, of course).
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Sure, they can work with the Hong Kong protesters, Lamas, and Cuban patriots. Maybe some Free Syra Army guys can help too.
Would be much appreciated if you could have a word with your people about this.
I'm an American, but my only experience with LA was traveling through for 2 days about 10 years ago. AKA no experience with LA.
This action appears to be originated from LAPD and therefore the local LA government. I have always considered LA to be deeply blue, and would therefore think that their local LA government would be Democrat, not Republican.
So should this not be the local blue voting populace having a word with their blue elected politicians?
Snot FlickermanThe police are violent thugs everywhere, not just Republican cities and states.
It's because they have almost complete immunity from being prosecuted for wrongdoing and also, well, they are incredibly well armed and often use their monopoly on violence to threaten blue politicians.
I grew up in a city where cops didn't like their own chief of police because he wanted to drug test the force regularly after several got caught doing drugs on the job. The chiefs own force stalked him, harassed him, made violent threats against him and his family, until he was ran out of town. The police union sued him and said drug testing them violated their rights. The police union won in court. Those drug tests never happened.
That's kinda what I'm getting at. This isn't R vs D, and further perpetuating that is lending into the division of the country that the powers that be want.
This is class war, always has been. Police are the arm wielding power of the rich, used to push down the working class.
LAPD is not under the control of any government. They have literal warring gang factions within the LAPD. It is an occupying junta force.
ZizzyLAPD is notoriously corrupt and vile even among other police peers and has been for a long time. Its only competitor is the NYPD
LAPD is better than it used to be but it’s still full of assholes.
LASD has been worse and probably still is.
though the actual audio sounds like they're making a joke, they could very well have the plates and do that
This would likely be done through cell phone tracking devices like a stingray, not plates. I don't know how many people are in their cars at a protest.
That's in LA. It doesn't count. They're not people. /sarcasm
CatoblepasConservatives are unironically like this. They cheer when we have earthquakes and fires.
As someone who lives in Hurricane Alley, have you tried just not living where earthquakes happen?
That seems to be the standard response of those in California when a hurricane hits my area...
Interesting that a Californian making a callous comment about living in hurricane country is somehow equivalent to the conservative media industry absolutely cheering bloodshed any time natural disasters strike us. 🙄 If California celebrated like this any time, much less every time, a natural disaster hit somewhere else it would have its own dedicated conservative channel playing it on loop.
I’ve lived through multiple hurricanes because I haven’t always lived in California. People from everywhere say that stupid shit about hurricane prone areas. Take the chip off your shoulder.
It's more than a callous comment. It is the epitome of victim blaming, and the fact that you are attempting to make apologies for it is telling.
Go have this fight with someone that wants to have it and didn’t make it clear that kind of behavior isn’t alright. Maybe somewhere other than on a thread about cops threatening to come assault protesters in their homes.
It's a very personal issue for me.
I lost everything and had to start over with little more then the clothes on my back, and then to hear people say I should've just moved?
I'm someone that is from tornado alley. I celebrate when they get hit now because it means that they have to experience the consequences of their actions.
My family is still there and I hope they can get out but, most of the people I met their would shake your hand while stabbing people like me in the back.
roofuskitYou won't have much of a choice when FEMA is gone. I mean, less and less people will have homes there anymore.
Right, because nobody lived here prior to the existence of FEMA.
I, for the life of me, cannot understand how people can look at the history of what our, and most other governments have done, and then say, "Hey, you know what? We need more of that!"
Yeah, it's not like there's a reason fewer and fewer insurance companies will write a policy in that state every year. It's not like the property insurance rates are the highest in the country.
venusaur
Remember the government will profile you and harass you until you become the image they profiled you as.
🗽
Fuck this timeline. Resist. They don't have enough people to get to us all unless we are compliant.
This is incorrect. They absolutely have enough people to monitor the feeds for detected people and collect people up individually after the fact, which is exactly what the speakers/statements are alluding to.
This is why "AI" bullshit is bullshit. This is why cameras on literally every traffic light is bad. This is what a lot of people have been screaming since 9/11. With the TSA and other organizations collecting information all willy nilly.
they are using palintir for that purpose.
Yeah... There is no such thing as privacy or security. It's already game over for human rights like that. They need each citizen to be their product in which they can buy sell and profit off.
The roosters at that cop city place in Georgia said they started getting harassed and followed by the police. The police and feds works the same as street gang pressure. It's basically legal modern Mafia... In fact they even have used the mafia for themselves.
It can get cold if you're protesting at night, so don't forget to keep warm by wearing a face covering 😊
The helicopter itself made these threats?
Yeah, our government is like Cars.
Don't know, but it's very easily done via LRAD. which the LAPD is known to have a "unknown quantity" of.
Note it's secondary usage as a "sonic weapon". [Self defense tips] (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqIvak-4Ek)
Gotta love this for guy saying exactly what he means.
Also : possible to redirect the sound toward the emitter using a parabolic object. Video on the 'tubes.
Whoosh
Or have we lived long enough to see the 4-chan meme of identifying as an attack helicopter become a real thing‽
I was a juror on a trial where a camera was used to record a purported crime from a helicopter. The camera quality was no joke, I could make out the individual buttons on the guy’s shirt. I don’t doubt they could ID people from the chopper.
If only there was something to shoot down police helicopters.
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